Thoughts?

[rispacooper]

Reposted from og posting in the_originals

simpleslash

Description from community info page:

For readers who want to read a good story without the smut, and for writers who want to write a good story without the smut.

The vast majority of slash or yaoi fictions seems to be comprised of sex. I don't have a problem with sex or smut in stories. I read it and enjoy as much as the next person. But I think there are more than a few authors out there--like myself--who don't write it and feel that, as a result, they lose some credibility as slash or yaoi writers.

I think many of us, at one time or another, have received a review suggesting that a story might have been better had their been sex in it. As though a good plot and characters are not enough to sustain a story and make it worth reading.

So, too, I imagine some readers are not necessarily always inspired to wade through a lot of sex for the sake of advancing the plot. Again I stress, I am not against sex in a story. But sometimes I--and I would imagine others--would just like to read a simple story without the sex or the smut. Something modest and PG; just as enjoyable, but not as hard.

So I open this community to readers and writers both who want a simple slash story, without all the explicit detail.

Thoughts, anyone? I'd like to hear the opinions of fellow smut-lovahs and writers on this one.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Rispa:

A good friend of mine, who is not that into slash,b ut reads my fiction because she likes the way I write asked me that very question.

I'm going to say that you don't have to have lots of sex or slash to make a story hum, but it's often a very easy way to move a plot forward or elucidate character.. It's sort of a form of cheating. How a character feels about sex and reacts in sexual situations is probably *the* quckest way to underveil a character's strengths and weaknesses that I know of. Plus, it can also move a plot forward like nobody's business.

Obvioulsly, you can develop character and plot without sex, I just that sex is very convenient in that regard. It's primal. It is perfect for introducing vulnerabilities. There is always the possibilty of violence associated with sex. There's always the component of power in sexual relationships. Slash or otherwise. In short, it's chock a block full of possibilities.

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

Word!

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I hate LJ.

I did post to this and it seems to have eaten it.

Essentially, sex is an excellent way to develop a characterization and also move plot forward. You don't have to have it, obviously writers like Jane Austen didn't need it, but you have to have some damn fine writing to pull it off. Including sex is not cheating, but it is a really easy way to elucidate a character. Someone's views on sex and actions in sexual situations can say SO much about a character. It's almost TOO tempting not to use it all the time.

Also, sex is about power. And there is not greater way to keep the tension up in a story if you have a power struggle between two people that is sexual in nature (hello, Rene and James). As the sexual tension between them is somewhat resolveded, I noticed that the plot is coming on gangbusters. As it should. Sex shouldn't be used as the be all and end all to move a story or characterization forward, because otherwise it becomes a PWP and is boring, but it can be an effective tool.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Sorry, obviously I am whacked today.

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

com mod: "I don't have a problem with smut . . . except that I have a problem with it." That's all I'm seeing here.

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

I mean, I could see if the mod wanted a comm for romantic slash or boykissing or cuddles or plotty slash stories, or something - I mean it is annoying that slashers get treated like deviant perverted freaks when some of us do work hard to write plots in our fanfic and stuff, or if they wanted a slash comm appropriate for all ages or something, but the nature of the request just seems uptight and irritating to me.

Something modest and PG; just as enjoyable, but not as hard.


Why? Just what is so unsettling about a higher rating? Again, if they'd asked for plotty slash over PWPs, fine, because in a good story the smut should just be a natural part of the story like any other event in the story. And how hard is it to look for "PG" on a comm page? And why is "smut" so bad?

I'm sorry, I'm just seeing someone with a personal problem here.

No, not all slash has to be smut and yes PG slash can be good, but I'm still annoyed.

[imre-nico.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think most things in life relate to sex. It's an Id drive, and people are all about Id. So even if these people aren't writing "sex", they're still writing sexual tension. That's like claiming you're eating vegetarian and using animal fat to cook your french fries.

Sorry, kids. Sex, life, tension, and relationships are inextricably linked.

I mean, I understand not liking PWP, but just saying 'we don't want sex' seems prudishly disingenuous to me.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

well, if its fanfiction, even a PWP has a background, a plot. you're using characters with a history even if you're too busy getting to the freaky to bother explaining that history. the audience knows it, and that's what makes it hot.

i just don't quite get her viewpoint

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

alright, so here's my damage with this post. more than the feeling i'm getting that smut is less than (and dirty) more than the claim that she's been somehow overlooked as a writer for her lack of porn (wtf, porn is marginal and generally avoided by mainstream, uptight america) i am bothered by the fact that she doesn't want to have to write smut because it's "hard".

what was that? i'm sorry, biach, but practice your skillz or get outta the game.

*is a bitch*

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

I thought she meant "hard" as in hardcore/softcore haha Now it's even more irritating.

Yes, writing smut is hard, but god forbid we have to WORK at writing. That's what makes a story - telling the whole story, even the HARD parts, making the story COMPLEX, getting down to the humanity of the characters which will likely include sex.

OMG! It's hard! *whine* *whine* *whine* I'm gonna like, not do stuff, cos it's hard. She should then call her comm halfassedslash.

IT'S HARD!!!!

*crazy*

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

hmm maybe she did mean it as hardcore...but i don't think so... as pir8fancier said, she doesn't seem especially brave as a writer.

halfassedslash is pretty damn funny btw

first of all, she hasn't even distinguished between porn and smut, and yes, folks, there is a difference

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

but making that distinction is HARD hah I don't get her viewpoint either. Well unless it's that "I can't do it (write smut) so I'm going act like stories without it are superior." Or maybe, "I want to get lots of praise, but don't want to do all the work." I think there's an element of prudishness though, all that "explicit detail" *gasp* I dunno, it's annoying.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

*feels like the wicked Marquis*

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I think that someone who eschews using sex as a means of characterization, plot points, and power struggles has an uphill battle. No contest. I don't mean to say that you throw a couple of dicks in a story and you've gotten something well written. I'm saying that it's the PERFECT vehicle to demonstrate characterization. Hell, in a well written piece, sex can become a third character. Almost a threesome, if you will.

So, yes, it takes some more writing chops if you're not willing to get down and dirty. But something tells me that if she finds sex to be a distasteful way to get the attention she wants, then I think that perhaps she's not a very brave writer in the first place. Not that I think you have to be a smut queen to write good fic. You don't. But if you're NOT willing to mine sex for all the potential characterization and plot points is can offer, then you're writing had better be good, because you're cutting off an ENTIRE avenue of possibilities.

The point I think that non-slash or even G writers miss is the fact that sex is primal. And good writing is about getting primal with your characters. You don't have to do it with dicks. Lots of people don't. But you STILL need to get primal.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

now maybe this woman (and i assume woman) woudl accept a technically G-rated story in which all sexual tension has been subsumed (correct word? i is brain ded) into something seemingly innocent. like super victorian on it. this can, when done well, be quite hot.

or is she saying even sexual subtext is out and there can only be love stories about two guys sitting on the couch watching tv and eating pork rinds? somebody sitting and reading a book--a very, very nonsexul book?

i mean...what exactly is the purpose of slash without sexual tension or sexuality?


AND is violence allowed? because violence should up the ratings too.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

i mean...what exactly is the purpose of slash without sexual tension or sexuality?

Got me. I think this is impossible and why in the fuck would you bother?

To me this sounds like a teeager or someone who is very young who is somewhat titillated by the idea of two men in love, but can't bring herself (assuming) to imagine them getting hot and bothered. Sort of like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid sort of fiction. With two hunky guys who play off each other with a great script and and have chemistry, but then race back to their hotel rooms to fuck their women because it really isn't the NATURAL order of things.

I agree with you. I think this whining about not getting attention is to detract from the main point. Sex isn't bad. It's a vehicle, granted one of many, to move characterization forward and to create tension. You don't have to do it that way, but it's harder. You probably need lots of battle scenes.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

suddenly everything turns into a Kubrick film...

if there was ever anyone who had a grasp of how messed up shit gets when people start denying the truth their natures.

someday someone ought to write Cold War slash where Krushchev (sp?) and Kennedy are mighty cockrub warriors...