Dear Fandom Bitches (yeah how's it sound directed right at you)

[rispacooper]

I'm not one to judge (okay, actually I am, but moving on). Fandom is a crazy, crazy place. Just like the real world in fact, though people like to pretend the two are different and completely separate. And in the real world fandom people of all varieties live their lives and, yes, perhaps, express their secret delights and perversions a little more openly than they would when not staring at a computer moniter.

I've been in fandom a long time now. Counting the nerdy junior high fan discussions my friends and I had before the advent of the internets, and then all those early MASH groups and alt/wesleycrusherdiediedie forums, I'd say, oh, fifteen years. So I've learned a few things, like take it easy on other people's OTPs no matter how weird or batshit they are (because an OTP is a reflection of that person and on some level they know that), that fandom storms only seem to be over, and that for the most part, live and let live is a good policy regarding other people's kinks. So trust me when I say, I don't care if you think hentai is sexy (okay, sometimes it kind of is) or you like Elricest, or if you think Benton Fraser would like a good pegging from Thatcher (first Due South fic I ever read, not kidding). I. Really. Don't. Care. Fandom is, on some level, fantasy, like reading a book or watching TV.

But (and yeah, so obviously about to say that). But To say it's on some level fantasy is not to say that like all art, or works of fiction, that it does not reflect reality or have a place in the real world. As a writer I'm telling you it's the responsibility of writers and artists to be aware of that. Say whatever the hell you want, create whatever monsters or heroes you want, but don't claim innocence or ignorance when I say that your creation says something about you, and about the world as you see it, and those who adore your work obviously share the same view. If you're any good as a writer at all, you should already fucking well know that. If you don't, get out of the game.

So, to all those members of a certain fandom that, for a certain show that, admittedly, I have never seen, but who are currently embroiled in a war over the show's misogynistic overtones: Whatever it is, own up to it and own up to it for the right reasons. Either it's sexist or it's not. If you're comfortable with it being anti-woman and want to keep watching for the hawt brother-love, then go right ahead, but please don't try to sugar-coat it. ---"It's a part of that character" "It makes sense he'd be sexist after his mother abandoned him"--- That's all (if you'll pardon me) bullshit. BULLSHIT. And I call shenanigans on anyone claiming that as though this show exists in a vacuum. As though this show doesn't exist in a world where misogyny (and violence against women) is a real problem. As though this character hasn't faced and been given choices and opportunities to change his worldview in the (4??) years this show has been on the air and the writers and producers have determined that it's not as profitable to take the focus away from dead girls and female-hating language. As though it's a legitimate and original creative decision to make a character be about as sexist as every other man on mainstream TV. As though if a TV character says it, it didn't come from anywhere and doesn't end up etched into your brain.

I'm not going to go all radical on you. There are many, like dear MissKittie who loved this show but couldn't take it anymore for the reasons I just stated and so who quietly just stopped watching. That you want to continue watching, that's your choice, and it's cool, baby. But honestly, please, don't give me anymore of those crap reasons about why it's cool for you. It's your show, it's your fantasy, and you, like the show, do not exist in pure fantasy but also in the real world, and you have to own up to the fact that this says something about you. Own it, and move on, but don't tell the people see who that fantasy and reality are connected to shut up.

Feel free to defriend me if I just pissed you off.

Comments

[beelikej.livejournal.com]

Damn. Did I miss some good wank again? I suspect you're talking about a show I don't watch, but now I would really like to join in to see who doesn't realize that what you're saying is true.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

*cough* Supernatural *cough*

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Yep. Agree.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

It's just bugs the crap out of me. :)

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I know, but after the POTC nightmare, I'm convinced that fandom often trumps normal moral parameters. The participation and love of "whatever' is much more important that what the specific show or movie is saying. God forbid you have to choose between your tv show and a moral or ethical choice, but they dealt the play. I mean think about it. You keep watching the show, the sponsors keep making money off of the commercials. It all feeds into someone's pocket. That you don't say, "This is wrong." They don't expect you to. They expect you to hang around because now it's cool and hip. That it's now full of shit shouldn't matter. But I think it does, and if people are willing to park their values in front of their television screen, fine. But don't expect me to read it or applaud you.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

Then you get those fanfic writers who like a character but not all aspects of that character, so suddenly they're watered down in a story. And you're like, no honey, if you want that guy, you wanted the jerk parts of him too, deal with it.

(I sound like a mean old woman. GASP! My dream of turning into Miss Weezer from Steel Magnolias has been acheived!)

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

It happens to the best of us.

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

You know, a while back, I wrote a huge long post on the CW forums about why there was SO MUCH violence against women in Smallville and Supernatural, and it generated like 13 pages of debate, and I figured if the shows' writers ever took notice of the boards, things MIGHT improve. But when the fangirls of Supernatural went INSANE about the two kick-ass new female characters on the show--and bitched so loudly that the studio and producers agreed to kill them off/weed them out--that pissed me off. Because both women were extremely strong, sexy, and smart--flawed and oftentimes the bad guy, but well-rounded, at least in my eyes (as a professional and published writer AND as a fangirl). This time, it was fandom that insisted they be removed so the show could focus more on the man-flesh, and... well, I'm all for brotherly love and man-flesh, but I'd also like to have the boys interact with SOMEONE ELSE once in a while. When both women were introduced, the boys went for the whole "Oh, I can't hit a girl" or "Maybe we should just give her a chance" thing, then, when both Bela and Ruby, you know, kicked their asses from here to the moon, they started to kick and smack-talk back. Like, you know, equals: The same way they talk to the male demons and thieves. So, fine by me. The more Dean uses the word "bitch" and smacks Bela or Ruby around, the more they steal his shit and mash his face into the floor. Neither girl started to break down in tears and look all wounded at the fact that Sam and Dean forgot their manners. The girls just kicked their asses *farther* than the moon. Which was awesome. For the studio to then be like "Well, the squealing teen girls don't like having female characters as rivals in their fantasy, so we'll bump 'em off, b/c, you know, female characters are expendable..." THAT right there is my definition of misogyny. Is Dean sexist? More than a little bit; it IS part of his character (and both main characters are certainly fucked up and flawed; I mean, Sam keeps trying to "save" women.) Even when Dean is minding his manners and trying to be respectful, he likes to pick up chicks and then leave them behind. But more than that, he's a downright acid-spitting bastard whenever anyone--especially a demon--threatens Sam. If you watch all 3 seasons, you'll see him smack-talk and beat the shit out of male demons, too. So, at this point, I'm more disappointed in the SPN fans than I am in the show's writers, b/c the fans were the deciding factor in taking the girls out of the fight--a fight which, up until now, they were winning.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

That women do it to themselves many times with TV character jealousy I agree. And, again, never having seen the show, it sounds like he's being sexist is sort of like Rene being sexist. I'm just annoyed at these (women) fans who excuse it and then start yelling at the ones who were pointing out it was a sexist (and that the sexism has apparently gotten worse on the show). They didn't want to hear it because they didn't like what that said about them that they were watching it, and it made them uncomfortable to own up to their kink or their love of Sam/Dean and so they snapped at the others and that's what pissed me off.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I find this so appalling, that the line between artist and audience is now completely obliterated. Note I am not saying that SPN is art, but you know that writers are letting the fans write the show, because what next. This is akin to a warped censorship in my view. If a group of fans decided they wanted racist, anti-semitic tripe on their screen, would the writers agree because it made brownie points with a certain segment of their viewing public? It swings ALL ways, sisters.

[suzume-tori.livejournal.com]

(Ack, forgot to log in the first time I tried to post this; please ignore my post as 'anonymous'. I'm just made-of-fail that way)

This show was touted as a 'horror-movie-once-a-week', so I guess I was never looking for anything super-deep. In a classic horror movie, there's some woman running from a slime monster in high heels and lingerie - in Supernatural, there are women who are very successful hunters (and -- get this! -- don't die. Or run in heels. I'm thinking those two are connected, but you never know. I could never run in heels, honestly.)

I have to admit -- I haven't seen all of the third season. But I hadn't noticed a misogynist feel to it, really. There is one character who is a womanizer, but womanizers are real, so it wasn't like 'how dare you bring this onto the show'. (Also, it's funny to see some of the girls who get the upper hand on him; Bella and Dean trying to one-up each other added a bit of comedy to the show when everything was getting really dark and depressing.)

Other than Dean being a sort of a womanizer, what am I missing? (I don't always pick up on these things, actually, which is why I'm asking. Also, I haven't seen all of the most recent season -- but I don't care about spoilers, because I'd rather know if there's something in the third season that is going to make me wish I hadn't seen it/feel like the show is going to hell/whatever.)

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

Well like I said, I've never seen a single episode. But there are women who say it is and some who say it isn't. But i trust my friend Kittie when she says it is --she loves the show btw. I was just commenting on the trend of people liking something but ignoring it's icky parts and then yelling at those who don't. It was irritating that they were denying the apparent misogyny or dimissing it as not important. If you like the show then fine, but like it for what it is and admit it. Like all of it, you know?

Apparently, and this is standard for most of the horror genre, but the way in which the women victims dying is depicted. The language the boys use things like that were all issues. These are issues that are standard in most American pop culture actually (not that they don't still need to be addressed elsewhere). It was just that fans were snapping on other fans for pointing it out.