Am rambling...

[rispacooper]

To pir8fancier I have my answer on themes ready. If ever asked what the point of Ideas of Sin was, it was *of course* the rise of Enlightment thinking over Medieval superstition, with copious amounts of buttsecks used as metaphor only.

Heh.

No honestly. I think love stories are simple. The point is always that. Everything else in the story is where things get messy.

yuletide...FREAKOUT!!!!

Also, am listening to "Blue Orchid" now on repeat. I loved that song before but now it's just hot.

Poor Joey Bishop. Though his being the last to die proves my theory that it's always *that guy* in the group who lives the longest. Ringo, you lucky bastard.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Whenever I think of IOS, I think of it as a love story. A love story with copious amounts of buttsecks that transcends its time, which means the rise of Enlightment thinking over Medieval superstition. A definite win/win in my opinion. I can't think of anything more wonderful than buttsecks in a historical context. And I MEAN THAT!

I think love stories are simple

Yeah, if you don't have a St. Cyr involved. Once the French boys make their appearance, THAT's when it gets uber messy. Rene is NOT simple.

Yuletide freakout. Glad I didn't sign up. I'm on a tear to finish my WIPs.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

And that is why I hesitate over more Etienne... I might go insane writing all of that. And you know, weirdly, even though I had a hard time hurting Rene onscreen (as it were) I could probably abuse Etienne in detail.

Huh. Weird.

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

I came to IoS for the smoldering sexual tension experienced from engaging POVs in a seamless style of diction. I stayed to figure out how fantastically psychologically fucked up the three main characters were. ~_^ But really, hot buttsecks is all you need.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

Pyschologically fucked up. Heh. Yeah. Thank God for the Buttsecks, which saved me from the complete insanity that is Rene's POV.

On a side note: Hello. And may I ask if Etienne Saint-Cyr frightens you? For some reason he scares my main beta/sounding board and we're trying to figure out if it's him or her.

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

Hello! No, actually. I found Etienne to be a generaly submissive person and therefore not frightening. He is on a mission his father gave him. He doesn't like it, but he does it. He does not even consider options or other choices; following his father’s orders is his identity. He is playing a power game with James' boss, but he doesn't openly challenge the man. He doesn't recognize James as an equal, but neither does he try to control James. In fact, his playing the French fop unconsciously gives James a hell of a lot of power in their relationship. He is, from the start, dependent on James to get to where he wants to go. His behavior is not cruel. The only time Etienne becomes assertive or attempts domination/aggression is when Rene comes into his family home and Rene (due to his abusive past and current fear/feelings of inadequacy) brings an unstable nervous excited angry mindset which feels threatening to Etienne’s sisters. Then, he protests and attempts to remove the threat. This is not to say that Etienne is not keenly intelligent, capable of complicated manipulation, or a formidable young man. He is very self-aware of his strengths and faults; he is, for all his mind games in the business world, perhaps one of the more honest characters (after James); and he can read people, sometimes. But considering James is mostly non-confrontational and Rene is so alpha male that all of his conflicts are already won in his mind before they even begin, I never once looked at Etienne as a real threat to either of the main characters. (St. Cyr the senior? Yes. He's a puppet-master and it is unsettling at the least.) Perhaps what makes your beta feel unsettled or nervous is that Etienne can very easily be a danger to himself. If your beta is a very sympathetic person, she can find Etienne unsettling b/c he is an instrument of his father's will and therefore, if ordered, can be very dangerous or do evil things. Again, he rarely considers other options. He sometimes practices self-sabotaging behavior and he himself is frustrated at his (not quite so gilded anymore) cage. Aside from James, Etienne is also most vulnerable to heartbreak and abuse. He often is in other men’s thrall or power, and he counters this by looking the most well groomed and acting the most haughty, Frankly, anyone who’s studied animal psychology can see him unconsciously puffing up to compensate. It just screams inner weakness. Etienne lacks courage and confidence in himself sometimes, but he is really only a threat to himself. Rene lacks confidence in himself and overcompensates by dominating others (piracy, rape, physical fights, whatever), he comes in, claims the space and the people and the goods, takes what he wants, and dominates WITH HIS MINDSET so much that the people around him—his crew, James, strangers, the St. Cyr legitimate children—all let him do it. His behavior at dinner is inexcusable but no one can stop him. You’ll notice that the mutiny doesn’t happen with a flat-out challenge to his power. He is deceived and knocked unconscious and abandoned, but even then, those once under his dominance or loyal to him could not kill him. Of all the characters in this book, Rene is about two or three steps away from acting like a rabid dog. He very much reminds me of Russell Crowe from 6 years ago. It is James’ calm patience in setting boundaries/standing up to him and THEN rewarding him with sincere affection and staunch loyalty that saves Rene from his path of destruction. The only character I truly worried about was Sr. St. Cyr, b/c he had so much power and control and no real scruples, and how is such a man to be worked on?

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

Ew, haha. Sorry. Russell Crowe. We were just discussing how gay he makes movies the other day. Ah, Russell.

It's also intersting, seeing my stuff from someone else's viewpoint.

She's still annoyed with Etienne, but she says now it's like this irrational fear that he'll takeover the story. Which she probably picked up from Rene.

HMM

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. When she was saying she was intimidated, she meant set on edge by how strong his presence came off? Well, yes. I can see that. He's a mystery card. There was a sentence that stuck out for me, b/c I felt you really summed up his duplicitous character in one instant, and it so intriguing to me: He blinked, focusing on the face of Etienne St. Cyr over the bright flame of a thick candle, noting that the younger man was not smiling, though his words had been almost playful. Now that simple line says so much. 1. James studies Etienne almost as much as he studies Rene. 2. Bright flame, thick candle, younger, and playful are romantic word choices. 3. Teasing words with a somber face proves that the character thinks deeply about things and, for all his ability to manipulate and wear a mask, he can’t help but be true to his true feelings.

See, wild and unpredictable as he is (to James, not us), Rene is pretty much always Rene, and you can get a sense of James' character almost immediately. But Etienne is clearly not what he plays at being, and for the first several chapters after he's introduced, you don't know if he's going to help or betray. I often wondered if he would be a serious rival for James' affection, him being everything Rene is not (cultured, subtle, manipulative, aware of his attractiveness, foppish, prissy, sensual but not overbearing). At times, James looks at Etienne with what I would consider serious attraction. And, a 3rd wheel is a staple for any love story, but you managed to make Etienne well-rounded and interesting, so, yes, I can see how a reader could easily transfer more attention to him than the two lovers.

I would love to read a novel-length story about Etienne's experiences; frankly, I'm most fascinated by characters who act one way and think another. Ben is the most loyal lap dog you to James (and James isn't even that strong a leader or protector, but it's impossible to know James and not fall in love with his good nature) and yet Ben has no trouble running around sucking cock for spare change or watching a man be gutted. See, that's just a damn interesting character. Way more interesting than if he was just a sweet golden boy orphan that James felt burdened with. He’s got layers and whatever his goals are, they aren’t immediately clear. I’m just so impressed with your characterization of people; not to disparage your pacing or diction or anything, just, it was the characters that kept me hooked. Speaking as a novels editor, I’d really encourage you to consider writing professionally if you don’t already.

[rispacooper.livejournal.com]

Ah well thank you. I don't know who would want to publish teh buttsecks, aside from Torquere I suppose, but it's a fun idea. Of course, I spent about 4 or 5 years on this, and right now I'm just...enjoying not doing it.

Etienne's story has such epic potential...in a trashy "Dynasty" kind of way. (Note: I need some catfights). Pir8fancier and I have been tossing around ideas of Etienne with some like-James-only-harder British navy man type...

who only is a little like Norrington from POTC

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Usually fantasy novels that have buttsecks do tasteful cut-aways. But, I'm just saying, whatever you write, it's publishable. And I'm really kind of a red-pen hardass, so I'm not saying that to blow hot air up your skirt.


OMG, yes please. Please, yes. Please, please Etienne with a edgy British navy guy! ZOMG so hot. "The Taming of the Fop." *squeals*