rispacooper

I am having a problem with f/f slash...if you can call the fact that I generally hate it a problem. I say generally because there are exceptions, that are just so hot or so interesting I have to bookmark them and read over and over, and possibly even rec them. And I realized after watching the movie Mona Lisa Smile yesterday that the reason I hate a lot of it is that it tends to be all buddy/cuddly, like m/m slash for tv cop shows tends to be. All the interesting opposing slash, all the characters who fight, or bicker, or who are *obsessed* with each other tend to get overlooked in the name of mush. Well watch Mona Lisa Smile, if you can stomach Julia Roberts and Julia Stiles (it's difficult but try), and watch the characters played by Kirsten Dunst and Maggie Gyllenhael (sp?) and then complain as I did about the lack of fanfic for those too, when the movie clearly sets it up for you. (Maggie's character, Giselle, kicks ass by the way. She's like Paulette Goddard in the women. Reow) Someone who doesn't write at the speed of a snail, like I do, please explore this! It's begging for it.

And on a related note, could we please banish the phrase "femslash" from writing? Why does f/f slash need it own word? Is it any less slashy than m/m. I think the only reason to have it at all is that word itself is...fun...to say out loud. It's almost suggestive. But it remains mostly unnecessary, and slightly offensive, and we need to be rid of it.

And then I trail off into oblivion....

heh heh

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Ooh, it's too bad I have fic up now or I would have put this along with cuddly mansex thinger.

Ok, firstly. Schmoop only when appropriate, for any gender. Too much schmoop makes the baby Jesus cry. I don't mind couple sex at all between good characters, because relationships are interesting particularly if one has been through one, but even then one should save the mush for the meaninful moments. Cuddly cops aren't my thing, as modern men aren't really hot to me, but I could read all day about George Washington/Lafayette schmooping all over each other in their frills. Historical male friendships are often so epically romantic that a gal cannot help herself. Men *did* smarm on each other back then so it's right in character.

But cuddly f/f? That's a new one for me, and pretty unnecessary I'd think, because women are perfectly free to smarm on each other without being sexual. M/M cuddling has wish fulfilment behind it for a. an equal relationship without the sexim inherit in hetersexual relationships and b. men to put aside the machismo just a little and, well, get in touch with their feelings. I think, as slash because more popular, it becomes less about "perversion" and more about idealized love - which is a good thing, because we obviously don't want same-sex sex falling into the "perverted" category. We all like romance, damnit.

I would say that rivalslash hehe, to me, is *more* of a male thing. Sort of like war. I can't say it'd ever occur to me to want to have sex with a rival I bicker with/am obsessed with, but men they're taught to dominate through penetration. It's the old Roman thing. I don't know how common my views are, but I see rival f/f is too simple for complex female psychology. Penetrating it doesn't solve things for us. Now, If the characters are very "manly" it would work. The biggest problem with slash in general is that it's not suited to the characters.

The world just isn't kinky enough for you :)

Hmm, maybe I should actually go into detail for once about what the hell I mean. (Really, yell at me when I go into Renespeak, will ya? I don't notice until it's too late). By cuddly, like fluff? I have no objections to well written cutesy fluff. For certain characters its even dead appropriate. But all the time, f/f or m/m, that's freakin annoying! Argh! Nobody is cutesy all the time. But if you wants to writes a cuddles or two, I shall read them, with excitement and secret cuddle lust in my heart.
However, the excessive touchy feely sentimentality often found in shows like Starsky and Hutch is gagworthy. Not only is it not male, its not female, and I'm actually insulted that people think it is.

And I am not talking enemies sex exactly. Take Smallville (pants). All that show has done is provide more reasons that Lex Luthor is obsessed with Superman, it has laid the groundwork for a greater philosophical debate and greater, deeply disturbed psychological problems for both characters than the comic book ever did. They are soulmates on one hand, and enemies/rivals on the other. One because they were meant to be, and one because the world has forced them to be. It's the height of hot tragic longing, it's not just sex. I actually think women are portrayed in that sort of slash as an insult. It's grand, on a Greek tragedy scale and I don't think women are seen as being able to hold up something as powerful as that. There's more to it than cuddling, way more to it than sex, so it just bothers and offends me that women don't get the chance to be occupied with other issues than feelings.

It's a common defense/battlecry of a lot of women that women just would never get themselves into those situations, because we're smarter, or we're complex and men are simple. I'll agree that the whole threat of sodomy-male way of doing business--doesn't affect women in quite the same way. But I'd like some challenges, some women breaking out of te emotional caretaker role if only for a moment, to get to change the world in an adult fashion, just as the men do. Anyway, at the end of Mona Lisa Smile,it's also pretty clear (to my insane head) that the two ladies are going to eventually end in a place involving much cuddles. Emotional support is well and good, but does it have to be everything, all the time?

I need coffee.

Ooooh oooh oooh ooooh! I think I thought you meant the opposite - that not all slash should be romance, when you're in fact saying that not all romance, male or female is cuddly. Sorry. People are reading this thinking we're wierd hah.

I totally agree. I've tried to deal with this in my HH fic because the fanfic is *all* sap all the time (I'm not sure I'd have written so much of it if I didn't have to avenge Archie) Even *that* kind of devoted love has resentment and guilt and all these luscious things attached. This is why I loved Sansa/Sandor so much. It wasn't any typical fantasy book kissy crap, it was scary and angry but it was sadly human and beautiful and therefore a thousands times more touching than stupid titanic shit. Anger and jealous and resentment are just as romantic and more affective because they're honest.

It is true though - women are seen as knowing how to deal with their feelings better then men, and a lot of slash is overly sappy where people have *no* problems saying "I love you, snugglebunny." I'm not that way, but maybe I'm wierd I dunno. But there's such a lack of good female characters in general, I mean we're barely allowed personalities in movies/books, let alone complex relationships. I think that's half the problem. So when good characters come along, we don't know what to do with them. That's the major problem - there's no archetype in our collective unconscious for this sort of thing. We can't say oh it's a Judas/Jesus thing, because we think of that as male (which is dumb).

Somehow, the mythology we draw from has got to get changed, so we have something grand to hold the f/f up to. I know you hate xena, but this sort of thing abounds in Xena, so it should get credit for that ;P There's also a het form of it in Xena/Caesar that's great.

Back to my original point, schmoop in small doses, and more slamming people against walls and tugging their hair hehehe Male and/or female. Cuz hey, the ugliness and human nature applies to women, too.

I think that's it, women aren't allowed to be "human" in the way that men are. We always have to be nice. Man, this is such a *HUGE* problem that the current state of f/f is just the tip of the iceburge. *thought headache* I have to shut up now or I'll rant forever.

once again we start out in semi meaningful conversation and then fall back to dirty sweaty images of dirty sweaty hotness.

hair tugging!!!!

heh heh

*pulls Horry's curls*

Pellew's not gonna tug the curls though; he's going to pet them when he has sex with Horry.

f/f

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